Equation of Excellence

FERMÀT Commerce (00:01.992)
All right, I think we're live. Let me just check on the old socials.

FERMÀT Commerce (00:17.943)
I love the LinkedIn lives because they make your banner the video. I think it's so clever. Okay, Alright folks. We are live. We are Filling it Monday September 16th. We made it. We have a pretty good breath here. We have San Francisco We have some Florida representation. We got the East Coast and then we got over the pond with a coop

Before we jump in, let's get a little round of intros. Barry, I'll start with you. I'll go to you next, Alex, then Jonathan, and then Rashib. You can follow up. So Barry, for the people that don't know you, if they have lived under the ugly ads rock, just give them a little quick elevator pitch. Yeah. Hey, Barry hot. I am a long time Facebook advertiser, big, big time Facebook ad nerd, a big fan of

Fermat and advisor, former advisor, I suppose. Anyway, I also own a piece of ad crate, a performance agency with my buddy here, Alex Cooper. Yeah. Long time Facebook ads nerd. Love it. Make ugly ads. I have a hat that says it and a neon light. That's real. It's not AI generated. It's real. I Yeah. I'm I'm a big fan of Barry's Barry and I have been jamming for a while. Now he came out to Austin and we got to do a nice lovely walk together.

Barry's good people, one of the best in the business. is a fun fact. I've met all of you in person, which is a rare thing to say in this day and age. I have physically touched each of you people. That's an odd way to bring it in. But hey, Andrew, it is true. I think I'm four out of five. Alex, I don't think you and I have met in person, have we?

We haven't yet. I just missed you because you're in New York recently, right? Yeah. Yeah. I go to New York, LA a lot. Yeah. I you by like a day, which I was going about. I was following your influencer house. That thing or the, when you put all the talent creator house in there, it's amazing. But anyways, I'm taking your shine. Alex, go ahead. I'm Alex Cooper, co -founder of an agency called Adcreate. We make performance creative for eight and nine figure DTC brands. Work with the...

FERMÀT Commerce (02:36.226)
Jonathan and the guys at Goat Foods, work with the likes of Huell, Harry's, Carraway, a lot of brands that you guys will be familiar with. And I also forgot to wear my Make Up with the Ad's hat today, or my AdCreat hat, so I'm kind of pissed about that. But yeah, I'm looking forward to chatting. You got a gorgeous head of hair and a fantastic Twitter feed. If you guys don't follow Alex, he has a marvelous Twitter feed. The man with the plan, we go way back.

Jonathan so in my previous role when I was seeing my triple whale Jonathan I works quite closely together and he was just this little up -and -coming goat brands We're trying to do this trying to do that now. I see you with these just pristine Absolute gorgeous venue machines all over airports and specific the Austin Airport You have every single domain name known to man

and you have the most delicious treats ever. So if you don't care about your weight and you just want to live life, you got licorice, caramels, other stuff that don't know if we're allowed to talk about that's coming out. But Jonathan, let the people know kind of and the sneaker. You're that I didn't know that fun fact when you're on the podcast where you come from basically like a Nordstrom style sneaker lineage. So shoe store, I guess is probably a better way to put it. But Jonathan, let the people know.

feel like you just did my intro, Rob. So no need for it. I'll give the quick intro, Jonathan Packer, one of the co -founders at Goat Foods. Goat Foods is a parent company to some great brands like Bikrish .com, Pretzels .com, Caramels .com, Tasty .com, Chocolate .com. Recently just launched Cupcakes .com. It's getting a long list now. So I kind of like have an acronym for it or something.

And truffles .com coming out in few months and cookies .com as

FERMÀT Commerce (04:36.554)
my gosh. The URL is worth more than like half of the DTC businesses by themselves. alone, mean, these are incredible. your business for sure. Can't be understated how good they actually taste. Like the licorice, I can eat a licorice for days. So worse. he, goes. You know, you could, you could enjoy yourself. You don't need to worry about, you know, the whole weight thing. You could have one here, one there.

Don't worry. don't need. I don't know. can't say you can. All lies. They are absolutely delicious. I forgot about the taffies. I smashed the taffies. Are we just recording an ad right now? this maybe this is an ad create ad. What are we doing here? Maybe cut it up, Alex. You never know. We're going to. And then my boss, one of.

my good friends that can call him now, just a wonderful human and a CV to match Jonathan's URLs for ship. Tell the people what's up. Awesome. I'm one of the co -founders of the CEO at Fermat and yeah, we help people build funnels like they build ads. So basically just help you customize every part of the post click experience, just like you should be doing with your creative. That's the quick.

Two cents. The leader in consumer experiences. OK, let's get started. I'm going to start with you, Alex, and I'll go to you, Barry, and then Jonathan, and then we'll wrap up with you, Rishabh. How do you think of building kind of your Q4 2024 creative strategy? A lot of people say you're pulling revenue forward in Q4. You fill the funnel now, and then you really maximize it.

How does that play into when you're thinking about creating ads for incredible companies like Go and so on and so forth? What do you consider? Does it change, et cetera? Yeah, I a few thoughts on this. For the most part, we don't try and change too much. In Q4, we try to make good evergreen ads year round. There are a few things that I do slightly differently in Q4, or just seasonally, I should say more so.

FERMÀT Commerce (07:01.038)
I think Barry does a great job in his content of talking about like looking at the con, look at the content that our consumers are consuming organically and thinking about how we can replicate that in the ads that we produce. So if we think about that for the holiday period, like an example that we have another client last year, you don't really want to show people ads or content of people in bikinis in November and December, because that isn't relevant to most people.

So what are people consuming at that time of year or what people doing in their everyday lives at that time of year, they are gifting, they're spending time with their families, they're spending time with their people that they love and giving them things. So we slightly index a little bit heavier on gifting content. Some of what we've done a lot for the GoFoods guys is like a lot of group taste tests. So we're rolling this out to a lot of clients this year, like thinking about can we get like slightly more organic?

you know, unboxings or like couple try on the couple tests, just giving products to creators and saying, like, go and try this together and try and create something that feels like an experience that you would actually go through in November or December, which is giving something to a family member and just seeing their like unscripted actual reaction to that. that's not going to necessarily like turn a bad end into a good one, but like thinking about, we do like, you know, giving this gift to my grandma, giving this gift to my dad, my partner, et cetera.

I think that, I mean, statics we've always seen to do on Q4, but these type of videos and like almost videos that feel a little less salesy, because people in their feet are getting hit by sales ads in November and December. Like every single ad they've been sold really hard. So can we do something slightly different? I shared a couple of accounts last year where, ASMR shot right up, over in November, I'm just thinking about like, can we do something that's

slightly less salesy and different and feels like a piece of content that someone could relate to at that time of year. So that's where I'd start. But overall, like we tend to do try and try and do stuff as evergreen and works throughout the year and then just slightly tailor it to the season or like what people correlate to at that point of time. Yeah, I love that. And for the kids at home following along, ASMR is autonomous sensory murdering response. For the non nerds out there, it's basically when you have those like

FERMÀT Commerce (09:25.73)
really intricate sounds with. us an example? Just do it. Just get up on your mic and tell us, us. The sultry sounds of Austin, Texas. This is where we need like the licorice or the caramel. Yeah. Yeah. chewing on that. Yeah. Little modern feels and clicking. I love that Alex. think that's absolutely the path. What would you add Barry?

Not much Alex. You nailed it. I would, I would say I love running evergreen ads. My whole kind of thing about Q4, you know, holidays sales, anything, or not even Q4, but any sales is just run the ads you're already running. It. Don't you dare turn, don't you dare turn off your best performing ads, during the sale period to just run sale ads. a that

creates a self -fulfilling prophecy where you'd like, my God, our sale ads did amazing. When you only ran sale ads, then they'll, you'll only think sale ads work. So try to not run so many sale ads and you'll see just by running a good offer on your site, you'll actually see improvement overall. you don't actually need to like message the sale as much as you might think you still should. but really you still want to focus on good storytelling. Like Alex was saying, you still want to focus on the consumer and what they care about.

And I would tell you, like, whatever you do, don't just like, here's a prop for you. Don't just put this like a post -it note of the sale on a blank background with no context. If you're going to use this, like put it on the product, like to show what the product is or put it in the setting where the product is going to be used. Something that's relevant to it. Keep the brand, you know, put the brand name in it. At least don't I, I

freak out and get so mad whenever I see just like 30 % off our best deal ever and you don't know what it's for. It doesn't say the brand, it doesn't say the product and it doesn't say anything. All you're doing is just getting people who want cheap deals. You're not getting people who actually want your brand, your product or anything that you're about. So that's what I would say to keep in mind. So you get, good customers, not just the cheapest ones. Yeah. The group on effect.

FERMÀT Commerce (11:43.464)
Andrew Mason, a G, but the group on effect was net -net negative for most businesses. Jonathan, when are you guys starting your BFCMs and how are you thinking about kind of your BFCM strategy this year for GOAT? I mean, I got to pull up the calendar. I think we're going to start, we're trying to stay true as much as possible. So we're not going to start it Thursday night. We'll probably start at the 25th, November 25th.

Thanksgiving this year is November 28th. a few days before, but, so that's when we'll start it this year. Yeah. TBD that could change a little bit. but, something that we do that Alex, touched on a little bit is our messaging changes probably from the end of October, you know, starting the end of October. we try to focus on self consumption a lot more the first 10 months of the year. And then we really, really hit the gifting angle hard.

the last two months of the year. So, we saw that work, very well last year. and we'll start pounding the. You know, all, all channels, whether it's digital or TV or, or search, with gifting messages, hard, starting November. I love that. And then Rashib, I guess the question for you is because we are such an incredible experimentation platform.

What is your suggestions or like, do you think of experimentation in Q4? Yeah, I think that one of the more common pathways that at least we see is answering this like, Hey, how do I hit different types of people? like something that we haven't touched on, I'm curious how you guys all think about it is how do you segment between a repeat customer coming in to do gifting versus acquiring a new customer who's coming in via gifting?

as an example. But those types of questions of like, hey, what types of people are you attracting and how? And therefore, what types of experiences do you want to give them when you're attracting them? Are you attracting a first time buyer or repeat buyer? Are you trying to reward someone who has been a loyal customer? I would say that like those types of questions are the types of experiments that we're seeing a bunch of people running right now is

FERMÀT Commerce (14:08.15)
Hey, what are the types of experiences that you want to give different types of people and what types of messages are resonating with different cohorts in order to maximize whatever the objective is for this period of time, right? So different people will also have different objectives. Nate Lagos came on to a different webinar of ours and his objective, for example, is to get the largest number of people who look like high LTV first time acquirers. So.

you know, he's very specifically targeting a specific cohort. And so then the question that he's going to try to ask is, how do I acquire like, what does a high LTV customer look like? So I can do the analysis on my backend. And then after that, I can test what types of messages drive those types of people to acquire. then therefore that's the type of people I'm going to send a certain type of message to, and I'm going to send a different message to other people. And so yeah, that's the type of experimentation that we're at least seeing people doing is just thinking through.

which cohorts and how. And so I was going to actually like ask you guys how you guys think about what types of messages for like new versus existing.

Yeah, there's a of different points to tackle here. Like we generally try and make evergreen ads that work regardless of whether you are aware of the brand or not with the assumption that like if I make a great acquisition ad, if you've seen the brand six times, if you've never seen the brand before, if that's what what Byrode call a full funnel ad, it should get you to click through to the landing page.

think it's a really interesting point that you raised on like different types of messages. We actually had a situation with the client this year where they realized that, know, lot of times we plan the CPA game. can be like somewhat from race at the bottom. and they realized that when they made broader, like less focused claims about problems, they were acquiring cheaper customers. When they did the analysis in the backend, they found that when they talked about the specific niche problem, that was less broad, but like,

FERMÀT Commerce (16:13.77)
more focused, the LTV on the backend was, was way higher. so it's not to say there's a right or wrong, with that, cause sometimes it could be better to apply the cheaper customers who have a lower LTV, but like there's more of them to take, but it's just like being intentional from like the whole funnel, because what you say in those first couple of seconds is going to dictate who resonates with the ad and therefore what kind of customers we're bringing into the funnel. So it's really not.

Like not saying there's a right or wrong, but like be aware of it, run these tests and just know that like throughout the whole phone, you want to be intentional with the type of people that you're bringing in. Yeah, I love that. Also, we have, think like 101 users now or watchers. So if you're out there and you want to comment or get a question into this brilliant brain trust, just toss a comment in and we'll see it pop up here and I'll try and get to it. Along those lines of LTV, et cetera.

Barry, how do you think of kind of purchases versus subscriptions? Do you ever make ads strictly for like, hey, this creative is made to push somebody into a subscription or does that make sense what I'm saying?

And you're muted. There you go. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. That makes total sense. sorry about that. it makes sense. It's a great question actually. and in fact, I'm so excited because I don't think it's a question I've ever been asked before, which is for me, just a pretty exciting. Yeah. no, I, know, I, I work with, in particular, I've worked with a lot of subscription brands, and I really don't like to push the subscription messaging hard. Like,

If I'm going to get to that, that's going to be like after like 45 seconds or a minute in. Right. And it's not going to be a big thing I'm going to dwell on unless I have to. Right. Like I think when I was doing ads for Harry's Razors, that was something where it would make sense. Fundamentally, the business is kind of around you getting the handle and then you subscribing to the Razors preferably. So that one kind of makes sense. It's kind of a major benefit of it.

FERMÀT Commerce (18:26.944)
But for most of their things, I would say people aren't ready yet to subscribe if they're not really bought into it. So I'd rather put all of my energy into selling the shit out of this thing that gets them so fired up to want it really bad. They'll they'll they'll see themselves engaging with that product, consuming that product on a consistent basis. Like, that's what I want to visualize.

And that's what I might pepper in in my language in an ad is and gets, you know, get something in the script or something, you know, whatever, improvise about that just, but it's not about to me like, and get the subscription in the ad. Absolutely not something I'm like super focused on, but on the, certainly on the landing page side, on the site side, I literally, before this call, it was something I'm working on was like, how do we frame the subscription in a way that

isn't just about saving money. It's about all these other benefits. So yeah, it depends. But usually not something I'm like hyped freaking out about in an ad. And I wouldn't, I'd rather spend ad time focusing on like, what's so great about this product rather than like why you should subscribe. Because yeah, again, once people want it, they'll better see themselves consuming it repeatedly. Yeah, definitely. Crawl, walk, run.

Jonathan, Rashib, you guys are two the better pseudo economists that I know. Let's start with you, Jonathan. What are your thoughts and predictions for Black Friday, Cyber Monday this year? We have a presidential election going, lots of ad dollars getting spent. It looks like there's gonna be some rate cuts. Yeah, what are your thoughts, Jonathan? Do you have any kind of thoughts, predictions? What do you think this year is gonna entail for us?

I think consumer sentiment is definitely down over the last few months, which just makes me believe that Q4 will still be Q4 as my partner says all the time, everybody needs a gift for multiple people. If you show up without a gift, tough year ahead. So you're going need to get a gift. So it's just a matter of how you position that gift.

FERMÀT Commerce (20:53.388)
So I think people are going to be looking for deals. It doesn't need to be a straight 30 % off or whatever standard thing. if people, as I said earlier, people usually get more than one gift. So if you do, buy one gift box and get the second for X % off, it's just a margin game from there.

you know, that could work also. So I think it's gonna be a strong Q4, probably a little bit more deal centric than last year, but I'm hoping that, you know, the gift givers come out and, you know, they're gonna buy a gift for their loved ones. Are you bullish or bearish on this being bigger than last year's BFCM? Bearish.

It lands it's the calendar definitely did not any just the calendar the calendar is weird this year for BFCM calendar You know every day obviously counts in December so really tough man. Yeah, just I think that you know, you'll see the volume, but you might not see the margin Yeah, definitely for ship. I love hearing your takes. I know you get mad at me when I this is quasi micro though This is this isn't the full

You get mad when I ask you about macro takes. Rob, I'm a micro guy, what's your take?

Yeah, I mean, I'm curious to debate Jonathan more on this, but I think a few points. So generally in prior years, I've seen like Labor Day tends to indicate on BFCM. so largely across the portfolio, if you look at Labor Day transaction volume, you saw like a pretty big pickup, at least across our book of customers who we work with. And so

FERMÀT Commerce (22:49.12)
Because what that tends to indicate is how much are consumers waiting for a sale. And then Labor Day is that first bite of a sale. And then Black Friday, Cyber Monday tends to be the barrage. And so you tend to see this. This has happened over the last two years, at least, where you see a little peak and then you see a massive peak. And I think this year was pretty good. And I would say it was better than last year.

point is I think that actually people will, I mean, I think that the election impact for better or for worse is going to be through November 5th. And then I think we're going to have like a very bimodal distribution depending on who gets elected. That's like how good the rest of it plays out. So without like commenting on one way or another, I think, you know, depending on which, which way it lands, I think we'll have unfortunately quite

large impact on consumer sentiment after that. And therefore on like total shopping behavior. But I suspect that like ad spend in general is going to be effective because there will be like a drain immediately on the spend levels on the large platforms starting on November 5th, because there's nothing to campaign for anymore. so, so like, so those are, I think like largely I would take the other side, which is to say I

overall optimistic, but I am. It's hedged on like who actually wins. Yeah. Well, the other thing too is with the U S buttoning up trade laws, that's just going to absolutely handicap Tmoo and a lot of these big Chinese spenders as well. So there could be a big flight in big ad spend that is actually getting deployed currently where, for people out there, the way political spending works, if a ship is running for whatever and he raises money,

You basically either have to spend that money or give it back. And let me say this, they don't give it back. So there just becomes this absolute deluge of spend. And Tmoo is also one of the biggest spenders, and that's going to get absolutely just cut off off the knees with the new legislation coming through. So I like it. Look at this fair and balanced. We got the bullish view. We got the bearish view. This is incredible. OK, let's switch gears a little bit. Alex, I'm going to toss it to you.

FERMÀT Commerce (25:15.276)
What's currently working and what's not working in 2024 for what you're seeing across your portfolio brands in terms of whether it's angles, statics, videos, carousels, et cetera. I mean, what's working for who? That's fair. That's fair. The way that you advertise a piece of licorice is very different to the way you advertise a pair of jeans, which is very different to the way you advertise a liver health supplement.

I don't like to make generic statements, but if I was to pin it on a couple of different formats or styles, something that we've seen in a few accounts working now. Authorities. Let me rephrase. That was a fantastic pushback. So let's do three verticals. So let's do apparel, health and subs and beauty.

FERMÀT Commerce (26:07.916)
Okay, so what's working in those verticals? Does that give you a little bit more specificity so you don't have to? was gonna say what type of apparel is it? Top, bottom? Are you kidding me? Yeah jeans for guys between 25 and 45 I can do. Okay, perfect. Let's go.

FERMÀT Commerce (26:35.916)
I'm pretty bullish on heading to Q4 and next year is authority figures and pairing authority figures with whitelisting. So whoever you are, you very likely have some kind of expert in your industry, whether it be like a doctor or an esthetician or a personal trainer, or even like food critique. There'll be someone who is perceived as an authority. And there's a couple of different ways you can go about.

putting creative together for them. Like what we've been doing, like testing recently is like actually reaching out to like genuine professionals and paying for their time, getting them on an interview. if they are down to talk about the product that we're advertising and, yeah, I don't know that's happened, just get them to record and turn that into, into a bunch of ads. You can also go the other way and do like fake podcasts, which you also know a ton of that work really well as well. If you get like someone in scrubs or someone pretending to be one of those.

authority figures, but especially if you can find a real person who can be traced back to like a Google search or profiles, get them to speak on it and then like whitelist those ads through them, either send them to a lander or send it to some kind of advertorial. We've seen work pretty well on a few different accounts. I feel good about that going into next year. Otherwise, I'd vote like slightly more like immediately actionable advice.

for Q4 and this kind of behooves me to say this. So sorry, Barry, but founder ads, founder ads, like literally just like picking up the phone and most founders like watching this will probably have a reason why they started the brand, a problem in their industry, picking it up. Doesn't have to be anything fancy. You don't have to spend 10K on a shoot. Pick it up, start talking about why you started, what the problem was in the industry and like why you introduced this solution and just running that pretty raw.

We've seen work in multiple accounts. I need to, I need to interrupt that. said something Alex that I have to interject. You said you don't need to spend $10 ,000 on it. If you, if you're a founder and you think you need to spend $10 ,000 on this, you've already gone the wrong direction. You do not like don't, don't spend any money on this. Just use your phone that you already have and go do it. Cause I will echo Alex.

FERMÀT Commerce (29:03.328)
We've seen this working both for brands we work with and other brands externally. It's such an E and it's so easy. It's like the, the, the effort versus the reward is that's the highest ROI thing. And like so many founders like, I'm so busy. I don't want to be doing the ads. Yeah. I want to get it. I write, write, write, write. But like, I have a lever for you to just easily do this thing.

And it's, it's, it's, it's really powerful right now. And I, I don't see that stopping for awhile. The only thing I see that being a problem with that is that it makes it easier for startup founders, younger founders, newer founders to actually get their foot in the door in a way that some more advanced ones wouldn't or won't. and that authenticity, it's that authenticity combined with what Alex said about authority.

that's like really hard to replicate or, or fake. And that's so powerful. and that's something we've seen winning time and time again. So sorry to steal that away from my, I'm allowed to jump into the chat. there's something I can post in the chat or like, of course. There's a private chat and I can, I can pull it up. That's a full play board. That's a full play board of founder. Quick giving away free stuff, man. Free tea.

I need to add more to this board to be fair, but like, yeah, there's a bunch of ugly founders ads on there that we use in info sometimes. What a board. This is a great board. in there. Sorry, one more thing, On the point of like authenticity, like a spin off of this that I don't know why more brands aren't customer ads. Like get your actual customers to do ads for you. Like we've got a couple of brands that we work with that just in their post purchase flows, seven days after.

after delivery, just say, Hey, do you want to make a hundred bucks or do you want to make 50 bucks and say 50 bucks if you send it in 50 bucks if we use it or like some kind of incentive for them. use a platform like testimonials .io or use them switch frame we use as well. and just get customers send in and 80 % of the stuff they make 90 % of the stuff they make won't be usable because they're not used to being on camera, which could also be an advantage. but you will get golden nuggets from that, that you could not

FERMÀT Commerce (31:31.628)
pay any creator to create. Like the way that they will speak about your product will be in a way that no non -customer could speak about or very, very few non -customers could speak about it. yeah, it's so frustrating when you have to like explain to a creator why they would buy this product versus like having to get a customer who are like, what, why did you buy this product? And they're like, you know, and they have so much to tell you. So sorry, go ahead.

I was just going to say the funny thing about, go ahead. Go ahead. Alex. Can I share this board public or no? Yeah. I tried to put it in the public chat, but I couldn't. Yeah. I have to be host. okay. Sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead. I just want to make sure that was okay. I was just going to share the one interesting thing about this line of thinking is this is exactly true for B2B too. So like everything that you said, the most interesting part about it is it's true for B2B and B2C. It's just like

Yeah, I mean, the least surprising thing on the planet, people buy from people and people buy from people who have already bought from you. That's, you know, those are like the two simple principles. And yeah, it's like those things work. I feel like in consumer, and you guys tell me if you feel differently, but I feel like in consumer in general, it has always been viewed as like, no, no, we got to do things that are like app scale.

Whereas like in B2B, it's like very normal to do like account -based marketing or whatever, you know, like do one -to -one, but I think it's actually becoming easier and easier to make every interaction feel one -to -one, even if it's actually at scale, which is like, Hey, I have the founder just like talk to the potential customer is roughly the equivalent of that because that's like literally what would happen in a B2B context. Yeah. I mean, one, I think you guys nailed it too.

I think you need to use horses for courses. Like if your founder is not charismatic, don't put them on camera. It just is what it is. Like sincerity is incredible and like if they're goofy and stuff, that's great. I love that. But I think the founder adds the other thing because Jonathan had one, he's charismatic, two great on camera and three has the warehouse on Prem. I used to love those ads when the founders walking through the warehouse showing it or like packing up like, Robba just bought this.

FERMÀT Commerce (33:59.21)
And Barry just bought this. Have you guys tried those or seen success? Cause they always worked on me. I loved it. Cause it was almost this meshing of a story. If that makes sense. Cause I get the founder talking, but I also kind of see where it's coming from. I get the warehouse. get just, just like, like all the kind of locks in the tumbler hit. And I'm like, man, that's cool. That's a human. There's cool stuff in there. Other people are buying. So it's like implicit social proof. Have you guys tried any of those warehouse ads or have, have you put Jonathan's beautiful mug on any ads yet?

It's we haven't yet been actually pushing it, but we it's on my calendar for the end of this week. My creative director put something on my calendar for this week. All right. We're getting in front. We're going to walk in the warehouse. Yes. man. Center, I should say. And we're doing it. So I'm excited for that. I've been pushing it for a little bit. So in the works. I love that. But I want to just touch on something that Alex said, which were

diving into now, you know, an authority figure talking about the product. So we just signed a big deal with truffles .com. I'll leave that here. Breaking news. We partnered with Wolfgang Puck. So we've been seeing a lot of success in the DTC space with, you know, celebrities getting behind a product that makes sense, right? It was not Wolfgang getting behind some chocolate truffles.

is totally authentic. He is known for giving out truffles during the Grammys, I think. And he's known for his truffle. So we're real excited for that. He'll be totally the face of that brand and partnering with us to make the truffle. So we think that will be a huge, huge lever for that brand.

Yeah, I think you nailed it there and this actually shameless plug I just had Reza from motion on our equation of excellence podcast and he had a brilliant idea where being able to basically buy the likeness of celebrities and ultimately that I think could have been what cameo should have been because he always had this a Asynchronous city problem where it's like I had the celebrity had to do it and this blah blah blah But like that'd be so rad to be able to do

FERMÀT Commerce (36:20.428)
I don't know if you've seen it run around on Twitter though. Somebody's making a whole Gordon Ramsey like show using AI and stuff like that. But I think that's, that's, that's perfectly. And then it gives Alex more bullets in the gun, Barry more bullets in the gun, makes Jonathan more money. Jonathan can sit down and do one take and then you can get five to seven takes out of it. Like I think that gets really interesting really quickly. Obviously you need to like make sure all the legalities are sussed up.

for the likeness, but I think that gets really interesting. I think you're going to see more of it because I think you guys are right. I think the authority figure is something that is underutilized, but I think the challenge is what you touched on Alex. If the sincerity like people have amazing bullshit detector and if the sincerity is off, dude, it's just the whole ad just caves and yeah, I would add for like for goat foods. I'd actually love to see aside from you like someone who's involved in the

the flavors like involved in that, like, right? Like someone who's a little, who's like closer to it, who like, no, no offense, like let's get you in some ads too. But you see what I'm saying? Like there's a, there's a, a different sense of authority about some of these things. love you, Barry. I mean, for me, it's always both, right? I want both, you know? Yeah. But in the request, what are you holding back on? Let's do it. There we go. All right. Fair. Yeah. It's my fault. That is my fault.

Speaking about buying likeness, did anyone see icon on Twitter? yeah. And anyone tried that yet? I have not tried it. I think it's a really interesting take. He got a little bit man. I'll tell you personally, this is my second early stage. The pricing and packaging is so hard and he caught he caught some heat on the pricing and packaging like people. But now wishing him well, I think it's a really awesome idea. And I think it gets gets really interesting.

But that that feels more like a testimonial than it does a Sincere authority figure if that makes sense, but it is it is I think it's a really cool idea. I like you know, not Okay, Barry, what's your take on statics? How do you make them stand out? Do they work because you're kind of a bit of a static static maxi? Am I am I aesthetic maxi? I think I'm a big -time video guys. I thought the ugly eyes the ugly ads were statics

FERMÀT Commerce (38:42.324)
No, no. I mean, I know I mean, you just write on the post. I suppose, you know, yeah, you have the Microsoft pain stack. No, I'm not. I'm certainly not. But I popularize it. But it's both to me. It's both like those are replicable. And those are those are to me. Those images are are just like gateway drugs to making ugly ads or just baby steps. You know, to me, really making a good ugly ad is very is typically video. I'm almost always all about video. But

To be fair to your question, absolutely static ads. I'm a fan of both. Static ads crush, they scale, they work in a lot of different ways that videos can't. And the thing that I'm constantly just trying to figure out and play with, with the way I just operate, I'm just trying to understand what do people want to consume from a content perspective. And generally they don't want to consume ads, right?

But what I'm also seeing is this weird world in which I think that sometimes a static image or a video that doesn't have a lot going on, or is basically almost as like a still image. think it's such a break from people's scrolling now that I think it actually throws people off because so much content that's being consumed now on these platforms is video. So I'm hilariously like,

kind of like, Hey, static ads kind of like stand out as ads more, which is bad. But also, I mean, I'm seeing them working well, which is either that it's getting people to stop because they're not, they like want to consume them for some reason. Or, the other thing I'm concerned about is that, static image, images are just cheaper to deliver and easier for the systems to, steal, attribution.

from easy clicks or easy views. the first a very can I? Yeah, can I? Can I? Yes. And I'm gonna I want to yes. And you a little bit. would love more than that. Yeah.

FERMÀT Commerce (40:53.182)
So I was just at, there was this conference held by this thing called Saster. Anyway, Booking .com gave a talk. So do you guys know the story of like Booking .com? Basically like the best conversion rate optimization platform ever built. And so they run like hundreds of thousands of A -B tests on a consistent fashion. They have a three X higher conversion rate than any other booking site because of the discipline of the science.

What they did is they did this game where they asked people, like a series of 10, which one do you think performed better? Right? Is it like A or B, A or B, A or B? And there was probably a thousand people in the audience. Guess how many people got all 10 right? Zero. Okay. what question did it become zero?

I would say three. Like as they went through the. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Okay. It was, was at four at four. Okay. And, and, and, and so my yes. And to like, you've got to be able to like create the content people want is it is actually very non -obvious to people what that is. because like, and, so like this whole thing of like, breakdown of the top.

brands that we see on Twitter. Somebody else said this, which is like, like, Hey, I actually know the performance of the majority of these. And like what you guys are thinking is the breakdown is like not correct. the, the like discipline around like, Hey, you actually need to know what is actually going to work, which goes back to our earlier conversation about like, how do you, what do you test and things like that is super important. And so it's like, yes, you know, the statics, there's going to be a certain type of them that

work. But I wouldn't just say like, Hey, Barry said this is going to work. So it'll work. You know, my yes and is like, and you should probably make sure that it's like this format and this style actually works for you and test it and be intellectually honest about the results that you're seeing. Because it's really tough. It's really tough. Especially when like, your boss is the one who's like following Barry, and you're like,

FERMÀT Commerce (43:17.75)
You you somehow need to be like, hey man, I hate to tell you this, but like it doesn't work, you know? you know, like those types of situations are like the ones that you like really get.

FERMÀT Commerce (43:32.556)
Barry out here ruining lives. We just broke 212 concurrent listeners and we only have two people in the chat. Gabriel, powerful Gabriel and Emmett. Love you Emmett. But drop any questions you want in the chat for these five people. Let's do a quick little segue. Do you want to go into AI yet or you want to close on AI?

Close on it. Close on it. How do you guys, let's start with you, Alex, then we'll go Barry, Jonathan, and then Rashib. How do you guys think of kind of you, you had a really good line, Alex, and now I'm forgetting it. Full funnel ad. How do you think of that though, an actual, like, do you guys think of matching ads to

different landers or are you more straight to the PDP? How do you think of kind of the whole consumer experience from ad to post -click to cart? Yeah, I guess I would love to hear it because you guys are some of the best in the business. So how are you thinking of that? Or do you guys specifically just really concentrate on driving the most value through the creative and the offer? I mean, it be from brand to brand. We tend to

to, like I said earlier, try and make evergreen ads that work regardless. And we have some brands that send to PDP, some brands that send to Landers, and some brands that send to pages outside of the site, like Abitorials.

But when we talk about full funnel ads, I almost see the ad, I've learned some Barry, so I'm not gonna take the credit for it, but I see the ad as we're starting from the hook, as assuming that no one knows about us or cares about us, and then almost treating the ads as the sales funnel itself. So when we start off, this is why we talk about ugly ads, doing something that feels like an organic piece of content, isn't salesy.

FERMÀT Commerce (45:28.288)
doesn't mention the product, focused on the problem and makes it relevant to someone who doesn't know or care about what we're doing. And then as we go on throughout the ad, then we can start introducing the product. Then we can start saying like, why should I, then you can talk about your brand, like almost treat it as like an on -ramp to brand and like talking about all the stuff that like marketing directors want to talk about, but like not before you spoke about the things that are relevant to people who don't know or care about you. and then going into that.

and then back into the ad, then we can get salesy and then we can start talking about the things we talk about on the landing page and then throughout the funnel. But like, can we convey that full experience throughout like a 35, 60 second ad? and then if we want to tailor it to specific landing pages, which we don't do too often, because like I said, we want to make ads that work if we change our landing pages or if we change our offers. and then if we do want to run specific things that we can play with the headlines or can play with the primary text.

But how can we try and like convey that sales process throughout the creative? Yeah, no, super well said. Barry, anything you add there?

You're on mute again. Yeah, you're on mute again. This guy is, is, is on most, most combined. You have to listen. Yeah. I'll just double click, you know, double down a little bit on what Alex said and also, what were you, some of you were saying a second ago before that, like, yeah, like we could go back and talk about like images versus videos. I remember there used to be on Twitter, by the way, like people would be like, what's your ratio of images versus videos in an account?

And I was like, why are people talking about this? It doesn't matter. Like, it's just not what matters. But like, you know, we're, we're not just, we're not saying here, like, this is the way to do it, but this is how we look at it from the principal standpoint. Right. So when we're talking about making, you know, full funnel ads, I absolutely think it's, it's, know, it's really just about how do we go from zero to a sale. Right. And some people aren't at zero. Some people are already at 99.

FERMÀT Commerce (47:37.28)
and they're just ready to buy. And that depends on the product that depends on the problem you're solving, the category that depends on so many variables. Some products are going to, are going to be easier than others. But for the most part, what I, what I find is I want to make content that's relevant to those people. Regardless, I don't have to sell to them right away. I don't have to be saying like, buy now they'll buy if they're ready to, and they want to, and this is relevant to them. So,

I kind of think of it as like, if it's relevant to this person and I'm not getting in their way, right? So in the ad, as long as I don't say something that makes them stop, right? Because they can click on the ad at any time. People know that they can click. as soon as I get their attention, if it's relevant to it, they're already going to assume this ad is going to solve whatever that problem I've just put in their lap. So they're going to click right away if they want, or they're going to stick around longer. Either way I win.

And then in terms of like a landing page, I'm, I'm more about, and I'm still learning about this and still growing more about landing pages than, than I know about ads. But like, I generally love the principle of, I want to have more available as long as I'm not getting in the way of someone taking that action they want to take. But also maybe I am getting a little, maybe I'm creating a little bit of friction for them in favor of them, like learning a little bit more.

or, or getting more bought in a route like that's one those weird things. Like I hate when a landing page, the first button is just like, takes you away from the landing page to something else. So PDP or just to like buy now, unless it's something that people are just ready to buy now and need no other information, which, know, they looked at it, they saw it in the ad and they're ready to buy it. you know, it all depends, but generally I want to be able to have massive

landing pages that can have whatever people want to look for and skim and find and get for themselves. I want to like, I often find that I'm throwing the kitchen sink into a landing page rather than taking away. And maybe that's a problem. Maybe I need to fix that. Maybe I need to, you know, edit down a little bit more, but at least with landing pages, as opposed to ads, people can skim and they can skip and they can move around and they're only going to leave when they see something that like either doesn't give them what they need.

FERMÀT Commerce (50:05.606)
or tells them what they don't want to hear. that's, know, as long as I can keep putting in like there's, would hear is what I'll say and then I'll leave it. There's basically no limit to the number of positive testimonials you can put on a landing page. I don't think there is an upper bound for that. People will keep reading them until they're ready to buy. And that's what I think. And I would love to hear if you guys disagree, cause you guys might have more.

Certainly would have more expertise than I would in that field, but yeah, I'm curious. Well, let's see what the boss man has to say. This is the company he founded.

or co -founded, excuse me, I love you, Shreyas. Sure, yeah, yeah, sure. I can go and then Jonathan, I'm curious what you think. I would say that actually, I would say the same thing, Barry said, which is the job of the post -click experience is to answer people's questions and get out of their way and let them do what they're naturally doing. So like a really good example is like, let's just say you,

have something in the format of like a five reasons why in the ad. So like you're trying to give reasons for something. And then a lot of people will send people to like a five reasons why article, like the number one problem actually with most five reasons why articles is that that's where the buying decision has happened already. Or if there's like a comparison text, that's where the buying decision has happened already. And so like one of the patterns that we see all the time,

is that if you land into one of those types of experiences, people are using that text and that article or advertorial to like make the buying decision in the same way that they would like browse products and read PDPs. And so actually once that happens, then you want to create just enough additional information to allow for the purchase to then happen, but you actually want to largely get out of the way. So in fact, if you like take someone to like a five reasons why article and then after that you send them to

FERMÀT Commerce (52:11.562)
like the homepage or to the PDP where there's like a lot of distraction that is like a good way of getting in someone's way. And so I'm actually like, yeah, I'm just yes. And dang what various saying again, like I would say that it has more to do with just understanding what, is the context you have put someone in at the point at which they have clicked the ad and therefore what is the right experience after that? And any like,

overthinking beyond that is actually like not a good use of time. And in fact, like the number one thing that I, and this is going to sound perhaps controversial, the number one thing I think is people get wrong is they think they need to like personalize it to the person where in fact, what you need to do is just like take them from the context that they were in through to the transaction. Like whether it's Barry or me, if we were both in the same context, it actually doesn't matter. Like in fact, if you try to personalize it at that point, you're just creating more friction.

Jonathan, where you land? think the word that I'm shocked hasn't been said yet said yet is congruency, right? I think it needs to start. know, Come on, guys. If you're selling a blue, there's a rookie. If there's a blue shirt in the ad, you can't you can't drive into a red shirt like that. think that's like the base. It's a very basic, very basic. But I've seen, you know, ads that I've been targeted with, like a quick there. And it's like, I got to go find the product now. Like that.

can, that can never happen. I think the last 20 minutes we sort of went in a little bit of a circle, like, and it's, and it's the motto that, that I subscribed to is like, you have no idea what the hell works, right? It's like, you know, nobody has a silver bullet. If you had the silver bullet, you probably wouldn't be, you know, on here. and, so it's me, it's like just doing the basics, congruency.

And if you do the basics, you probably have a better shot at winning. So that's my full funnel take. do the basics, make sure product, if it's a specific product, make sure it's driving to that product, you're gonna go a little broader, make sure the collection is targeting, you're targeting collection. And then we've also seen homepage work a bunch of times. So I think you could get a little bit broader, but make sure that you're...

FERMÀT Commerce (54:33.456)
when you're going a little bit specific, make sure it's actually going to the product or to the collection. Bad boys move in silence. Jonathan Packer, come with the heat. You absolutely nailed it for me. think that's the biggest thing where there's nothing more frustrating clicking on an ad and it goes to like, love the guys over at Ridge, but they'll run ads for like a specific wallet. And then it goes to this collection page. like, what the fuck am I supposed to, and then you got to find the product or you see an ad that says,

it's going to do, you know, help you get more muscle. And then you go to the landing page and it's like, and by the way, you will stop losing your hair. Like what? But I came here to get more muscle. Like, and you just have this, this, I think of it almost like a drawbridge, but, I love all the different perspectives. Okay. We're bumping. Can I address that for a second? One sec. The, would agree with what you said about the like supplement or whatever that was, but for Ridge, I bet you that they sell more.

by getting people to look at more wallets and more products and having to find that thing. This was a Miami Dolphins wallet. It was an NFL collection though. So let me, let me, let me caveat that where I hear you. I, I, I don't think it's wrong. I just think that if I'm a Miami Dolphins fan and I see this Miami Dolphins wallet, incredible. And the collection page looked incredible too. Don't get me wrong. Like don't get it twisted. They do incredible work there. And that could possibly be it, it Barry for sure. But I think that the conversion again,

what's the goal, right? Always start with the goal, what your goal is. But if you want to have a higher conversion rate, I almost guarantee showing the product and then putting that product easier to buy than me having to scroll through. I agree with you in a sense of if it's a non -specific product, like if they showed a certain Ridge wallet and then you can go bop around the site. But as teams, there's nobody that, like if I'm a Buffalo Bills fan, there's no way I'm going to buy a Miami Dolphins wallet or like.

you might buy something else on the site or multiple things on the site. Whereas if you go to one PDP with one product, you're just going to buy that one thing and get a good. Yeah, we can ask Sean. Yeah, that's what I going to say. We can ask Sean or Connor, but the one thing that I would say that makes me feel like this is just, yeah, that Robbaz probably right on this one is the obviously geo target the teams.

FERMÀT Commerce (56:56.204)
So like, only get served 49 hours. like considering that they're obviously geo targeting that my, my sense is that the congruity would help. Yeah. I just think like, I don't know. I get turned off when I'm all hot and bothered and then I got to go hunt versus like just, just take my money, kind of get out of my, what you're talking about Barry, like why put more friction in the way? Like, I mean, I agree with you, but it's very fair. There is a world in which more friction actually generates more sales. It's called, don't know.

That's called luxury. But I'm with you. I'm with you. I think it's a really good take. And I think you should do do what the ad account likes and have a goal in mind. So if your goal is to get people into the funnel to see more wallets, and because to the dolphins just had this crazy game and you saw dolphins wallet, I wonder if they have a bills or Cowboys wallet or whatever. But for me, it would be more effective to show the wallet and then go to that. But you're absolutely right. I think it's horses for courses and do what you want.

I know we're one minute over, but I would be remiss not to. So we're just going to go around the horn. We'll start with you, Barry, Alex, Jonathan or Shib. Barry, how do you and try and be really succinct? How do you think AI is going to affect performance creative? It won't. No, I'm just kidding. It's already here. It's already affecting us. We were already using, I'm already using like ways to like for me to record of something and then have a woman's voice or someone else saying it. So it's here, dude.

See that's a, so not to beat a dead horse, but that's a perfect example of another reason why having two different landing pages for the same ad would make a difference where if you have a landing page, you have a generic ad and you have a landing page and you have value props for a man, put a man on there, put men testimonials, you have value props or a woman, woman testimony is two funnels, same ad. Personally, I think you can consolidate them into one better for that's for both of them, but I'd have fun either way.

You well universal and specific specific usually don't it's it's easier to be specific than universal But you are the king you and Alex can do universal I do agree also technically duck people don't just buy from people they relate to like guy like especially in q4 like guys We've seen in accounts before like this the spam will shift to females even if you have the guys or vice versa like guys might be buying ads from

FERMÀT Commerce (59:20.146)
young attracted females talk about products. So I mean, generally, like a men's product for it with a woman on it. But that's Well, if a girl was saying like, my boyfriend looks better in these jeans, that that's interesting. But on the landing page, you have to show me a guy in jeans, not a girl in the jeans. That's why I'm getting the jeans being having like having her hand tugging on the jeans, a girl, a woman's hand tugging on the men's jeans. Right. And then if you flip that the

my boyfriend loves these jeans and then you would have to flip it where you couldn't use the same anyways, we're in circular. I think we're saying the same thing different ways. Alex, what do you think of AI? How is it going to affect performance credit? I echo what Barry said. It's already working. Arcades is we've got multiple winners across multiple industries and accounts with Arcades. Just don't run the 45 second clip because people can generally tell.

So mask it with B roll, mask it with green screens, don't have the AI speak for longer than two or three seconds. If possible, would argue if you're running the raw clip and it's working, which we have seen work, I would argue that it's working in spite of the creative rather than because of we've done extensive testing and found that when you do a mask it and have the AI speak for no longer than a few seconds at a time, it becomes better. And if there's one new tool that I'm keeping tabs on that I'd like

people to check it's imagine, create, create, think mid - I think I actually got introduced to them by Reza from Motion. Think mid -journey, but you can generate, but think mid -journey but with product images. So like you can give it a lay flat white background product image and you can say a man holding this iPhone in Central Park and it will generate an image of that with the product.

Which could be for statics which could be for products images on the site throughout the entire experience I think that they're have an arc ads like blow up in the industry over the next few months I love that even with a tooltip Jonathan Packer, what do you think AI? How is it gonna affect your business your creative and he's out here? Do you see he's hustling for us staying in the storm?

FERMÀT Commerce (01:01:39.168)
You dropped the congruency and then this, the ad gods just started to bless you. my God. Yeah. I'm going to keep it. I'm going to keep it short because I think it's obvious to everybody. is going to affect, you know, our life and our businesses in every aspect. So it's obviously going to affect, you know, this little niche of ad creative tremendously. then, know, throughout any, you know, throughout the whole business structure, which is what I really focus on, whether it's, you know, a copy or.

you know, accounting or inventory or anything, it's going to affect us tremendously. you know, crazy to not think it's going to affect the creative industry as well. Yeah, I love it. Rishabh, take us home. What do you got? Yeah, I think the only perspective I would like, yes, and on everybody is, I feel like it just adds the adds burden to asking good questions of the AI system. So it's like, knowing either people will view it as like knowing how to prompt it, but

You know, if it's like an analytics AI system, then it's just like literally knowing like how to ask the right question in order to know what you're measuring. If it's like a coding assist tool, it's like knowing what it is that you actually need. So the onus on knowing what question to ask increases so dramatically because the rest of it becomes so cheap to implement that I think like what'll happen is you'll actually like get people who are good at what they do. Those people will become exceptional.

at what they do because they know the questions to ask and they have been sufficiently like curious and, you know, honest with themselves about what's happening over time. And good at knowing when something's wrong. That's one of the scariest things when using AI is her to jump in. Like, but man, there's so many times where I'm like reading this, I'm like, I know that that's wrong. Like, but I wouldn't know that's wrong if I wasn't good at this. So sorry.

No, no, that's exactly, no, no, no, this is exactly right. Yeah. And so I think like what it'll, what it'll do is like, I mean, I'm not, you know, I'll do, I'll like sell for Alex a little bit, which is like the reason I would hire ad create is because they've been using it for so long. Like they've been unafraid to like bear hug it and basically say like, Hey, what does this enable? What questions do we ask? So they're going to be asking better questions than almost everybody else. And so like, you know, I would, I would look for the people who are like,

FERMÀT Commerce (01:04:04.182)
bear hugging it as opposed to, like, on Twitter you'll like see people arguing saying like, no, like you still have to do it yourself. Like, yeah, it's not good enough yet. I would, I would look for the people who are bear hugging it. Yeah. I love it. I know Jonathan Packer it's seven minutes over. Let's go ahead and sign you off so you can jump out of here and hopefully not have to drive home in a hurricane. Where can the people find you? Where can they buy all your delicious treats? This time's yours, my friend. yeah, I'm actually home. Got to put the kids to sleep. okay.

You can find me on LinkedIn. That's the best place. Jonathan Packer, feel free to message me. You can go on any of the sites. You can find all the sites on goatfoods .com. Greatest of all time foods. appreciate having me on and great conversation with everybody. You're the best, Jonathan. Congruency King, I really appreciate you. Feel free to jump off. I'm gonna sign everybody else off. Go get you. The caramels are absolute crack. The licorice, the taffies.

The pretzels, this guy, he has it all. Don't send me any cupcakes or truffles. I swear to God, Jonathan, thank you so much for your time, man. You're the best. Barry hit me. Where can people find you? One of my favorite humans, one of the smartest marketers I know out there. This time George. kind. That's very kind. If you want something from me, just Google Barry hot. That's find me on Twitter, LinkedIn, wherever you know, you're

There's guys so big. He's just hit the serp. It's not that I'm big. It's not that I'm big. It's that I have a unique name. That's all I meant is I have a unique name. That is not an ego statement. I just happened to have been blessed with a fun name. That's it. But I do want to plug. I can plug ad create, but more more interesting. I'd love to plug Alex and Alex just released a fun YouTube video that we did with our friend, Archit. We did. was like an hour and a half.

of just like hot takes. Yeah, it was killer. This video was I like, I've just watched it back. It was a lot of fun to shoot it and watching it. Like there's so much valuable stuff in there. I hate I Alex knows I hate I hate when we give away stuff for free and he loves giving away for free because he knows it's like good for business. But there's so many good value bombs in there. Definitely go check that out. OK, where is that? What's the that's on YouTube?

FERMÀT Commerce (01:06:21.834)
Yeah. you Google my name, you'll find it's called My Daddy Podcast. So don't do that. I haven't yet reached the level of notoriety where I can just say that. There's also a common name, the most common name, Cooper. Yeah, you're If you type in Alex Cooper, adcreate, adcreate, A -D -C -R -A -T -E, or adcreate if you want to spell it wrong like everyone does. We're on Twitter, LinkedIn, and YouTube, Alex Cooper, adcreate.

that was uploaded like three days ago, but was a ton of fun and got some good feedback on it. Amazing. Are you guys currently taking clients? How can people work with you, Alex? adcreate .co, A -D -C -R -A -T -E .co. We have a little bit of a wait list at the moment because a lot of demand and Q4 is coming up. So go and put an application through on the site. Our team will review it within 24 hours and we'll get back to you and see if we can help.

Fabulous. Thank you for going. It's a little bit late in the night over there, huh? You're burning the midnight oil, but I really appreciate it. I it is, like I was I'm working on American time today. I got back from traveling to Europe for the weekend this morning. So yeah, it was fun to jump on with everyone. Beautiful. And I didn't get to tell Packer this, but we broke the record. We hit like 307 concurrence. So pretty, pretty good. That's pretty good. Pretty, pretty good. Rishabh, what you got for me?

Dude, I'm just RishabemJane on Twitter and LinkedIn, but people should really be - Whiteboard is right behind you. How are you not gonna plug it? That's true. I did record like 20 minutes before the I was doing my founder video based on what Barry has been saying. I gotta shoot the ads. I gotta do the Whiteboard Wednesday. I gotta tell people Just use the Whiteboard Wednesday content as your ads, dude. Seriously, that's it. Love it.

That's it. That have actually been doing decent. They actually do work. Yeah. Yeah. They're amazing. Yeah. Yeah. They're actually very good. And we have them all on our YouTube, YouTube slash Vermont. you can go find all the backlog over there. And then if you want them in real time, they are on Rishabh's feed as it actually has a very, very good feed as well. And I'm not just saying that cause he's my boss. what else we got? We have for mot commerce .com.

FERMÀT Commerce (01:08:48.15)
You want to go book a demo, see how you can create funnels just like you create ads, make the best consumer experiences, get the congruency that we're talking about, even though Berry Hot is anti congruency, it's okay. You know, not everybody can be Berry. And then just a little, a little prickle. We also have a fantastic newsletter curated by the indomitable Alexa Kilroy.

called the equation of excellence and you can go sign up for that right on the site. I know we're 12 minutes over guys. I'm so sorry for, this, but this was just such a killer conversation that I wanted to keep it going. Barry, you're the man. Love you, dude. You're killing it, man. I can't go anywhere without seeing y 'all y 'all stuff. You guys are everywhere. We have some, we have some cool stuff coming. but I'll be in New York. No, I won't. going west coast, but maybe I'll make a trip out for you. I

I've been out there, but it's been so busy. You were just in my neighborhood and I couldn't see you and I'm very, that's my fault. Let me know what you do, because I'll be there as well. Okay. We just jump across the pond. We'll just get it done. we gave you the usher suite. We carved out an usher suite ticket for you. I can't believe it. Harry told me that. So mad walking this long, long,

He was like, yeah, they offered me to get to the. It's walking distance from my home and I couldn't go. was exquisite show. Barclays is amazing. I'm like an MSG guy, but MSG is a little long in the tooth. Barclays is very nice. Well, it's iconic, you know what mean? But Barclays is like nice. Barclays is actually really nice. It was a good show. We may or may not have more fun events coming up depending on like how Alexa feels.

So make her send her love and we'll have more great events. I think she was very mad. She was very mad that I couldn't come. Dude, it was like the elite. it was like, it would have been your crowd, but next time, next time. I think we have a net suite cause there's a whole story behind the day. yes. Yes. There she is. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry.

FERMÀT Commerce (01:10:54.348)
If you're ever in Austin, let me know. I'll usually go to Europe once or twice a year, so I'll ping you when I'm out there as well. And then you guys are awesome. I really appreciate it. Thank you all for following along. This is our biggest show, actually 320 now. So really awesome. You guys rock. Let us know how we can make these webinars more better for you and Rishabh, Alex, Barry. Thank you so much. John, you a plug. You got to plug something. What do got to plug?

marketing OS it's coming out, guess soon soon soonish soonish. I have, it needs to come out. It needs to come out. It's perfect. And then I want to make it more perfect. And I'm sure we all deal with that sometimes, but it's gorgeous. It's a notion. It's amazing. yeah, well actually ironically enough, not very Googleable. Well maybe, but, Rob was actually a very common name in, a lot of your first and last name comes up as you when I go, yes, I have the very hot magnitude.

Amazing. All right, folks, that's all we got. Thanks so much. This will be post -hoc consumable on the YouTubes if you want to rewatch this and take all the notes from Alex Berry, Jonathan Rashib. And we really appreciate you tuning in. Have a good one. Bye bye. Enjoy this Monday. Thanks.